並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep12-%E4%B8%AD%E8%81%B7%E9%A1%8F%E8%B3%AA%E6%9C%80%E9%AB%98%E7%9A%84%E6%87%89%E6%8F%B4%E5%9C%98%E9%95%B7-anu%E9%98%BF%E5%8A%AA/id1501311224?i=1000475957795