並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep20-%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E4%B8%BB%E6%92%AD%E9%BB%83%E6%98%9F%E6%A8%BA-%E9%82%A3%E4%BA%9B%E9%97%9C%E6%96%BC%E8%A8%98%E8%80%85%E8%88%87%E4%B8%BB%E6%92%AD%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%A7%E5%B0%8F%E4%BA%8B/id1517659395?i=1000508862936