並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-60-%E6%88%B2%E9%99%A2%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E5%85%87%E6%A1%88%E7%8F%BE%E5%A0%B4-%E8%B7%B3%E9%8D%BE%E9%A6%97%E7%A6%81%E5%BF%8C%E5%A4%9A-%E8%A7%B8%E7%8A%AF%E7%AB%8B%E9%A6%AC%E5%8E%84%E9%81%8B%E7%BA%8F%E8%BA%AB-%E6%9C%80%E7%94%98%E8%8B%A6%E7%9A%84%E5%84%AA%E8%B3%AA%E5%A5%B3%E6%80%A7%E5%AD%AB%E7%BF%A0%E9%B3%B3%E8%80%81%E5%B8%AB%E9%9D%A0-%E9%80%99%E9%A0%85-%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E7%95%B6%E5%AE%B6%E5%8F%B0%E6%9F%B1/id1528693901?i=1000512099417