並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-20-%E4%B8%AD%E8%81%B7%E6%87%89%E6%8F%B4%E6%B4%BB%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2-%E5%9C%98%E9%95%B7%E9%98%BF%E6%9D%B0%E5%B8%B6%E4%BD%A0%E7%A9%BF%E8%B6%8A%E6%99%82%E7%A9%BA/id1547597639?i=1000522922157